What's in it for the Guys?
I have been reflecting on dating lately, and coming up a bit short. Fine, a girl has to do her hair and makeup and pick out something nice to wear. The guy definitely doesn't have to put in as much effort on that end. But the guy has to pay for whatever entertainment is being offered, for meals, for transportation. He is expected to hold open doors, to drive, to makes the calls and ask the girl out. What do the guys get for all that? Our presence? I don't know, I think a lot of my friends would hate my right now for saying it, but I think the guys might be getting the raw end of the deal. Anyone, please chime in and help me figure this one out. I kind of feel a little bad.
posted by Shoshana @ 8:06 PM
11 Comments:
The guys have much more control over the whole process. They get much less pressure to "keep going out" if they feel it's not shayach. And in most cases, the girl travels at least halfway to him. About 80% of my dates are not in Baltimore. The girl also has to act decent, not just the guy. It's not like we get a free ride after we blow dry our hair and put make up on. We're still "on-show". Especially if the guy is not sucha great conversationalist. Oh, and as far as planning the date--even when I travel to where the guy lives, many times I end up planning the date, as well. And forget about if the guy comes to Baltimore! Then it's a given that I will plan the date.
Now I don't want it to seem like I am ranting or that I think guys have it easier. Dating is hard for everyone and if you're feeling bad for the guys, there's plenty to feel bad about for the girls, too.
My friends who are dating almost always travel to the girl - all the way - unless the girl already happens to be nearby. Personally, I think whoever is in their "host" area should plan the date - if he's from NY, she's from Baltimore, then if it's NY he should if it's in Baltimore she should. It's just more practical.
Having seen so many on both sides preparing for dates and speaking to them afterwards: Dating sucks. The more formal, the more that's true.
Shoshana, you don't feel that an afternoon or evening spent out with you is worth the guy's efforts?
Sara -
I don't dismiss the fact that women have distinct disadvantages in the dating process as well. I guess I just feel sympathy in the financial area of things. I am not sure if I could afford dating if I was a guy :) And I always just tell the guy that he has to plan the date - I don't give them the choice! Though the truth is, if I planned the date, we would be sure to go somewhere I will enjoy myself, if nothing else!
Ezzie -
You are right, dating sucks. I wish there was a way to bypass the whole process, but I'm not quite willing to go the route of arranged marriages yet.
Ze'ev -
I hope the guy feels that the time spent with me is worth his efforts!
I'm with you & Ezzie. Dating stinks. There is nothing in the dating process that's good for anybody. It takes a toll on men and women, just in different ways.
IMO perpetuating this system is evil. It's being a tzaddik harbay. It's a man standing around watching a woman drown because he's shomer negiah.
The system worked well in Europe because communities were smaller, people's lives were less varied and accomplished, and their hopes and dreams were more stereotypical. In today's world it's amazing it works for anybody.
On the subject of dating in Europe, its very popular to "Go dutch" (each pays for themselves during the date), especially the first time. It makes everything feel more "square" and then afterwards there are no hard feelings if the date didn´t go well. Although, its a great plus if the guy offers to pay but it still makes me feel like he "owns" the date in that case. Just an attitude I picked up from living in Europe. It was hard for me in the beginning to deal with the so called gentlemen in Europe, but after a while I realised it provides some kind of invisible comfort during the date. I still support the dating sucks crew, it ain´t easy being single.Sigh!
Debbie -
You don't have to perpetuate the system. Do your own thing. It's not easy, but you can do it.
Adi -
Interesting what you are saying about one or the other person "owning" the date. Never really thought about it that way.
wattwatt -
I love park dates and often suggest them myself. I enjoy being outdoors (at least when it isn't cold) and it's always nice to have an excuse to appreciate nature. I'm not sure either about the winter - maybe a mall where there is lots of people-watching to be done? Totally different type of nature there.
I'd go outside even in the winter - if it gets too cold, head inside a Starbucks or somewhere else to warm up.
In NYC, my wife and I went to Central Park the day after it snowed - it was gorgeous and fun. Another time, we checkout out Rockefeller Center and the impressive Christmas displays (ice sculptures and whatnot) - they may not be our thing, but the sculptures were impressive and beautiful.
Then again, I love the cold. Everyone's different.
Ezzie -
That's cause you are from Cleveland. Try being from Alabama and your feelings about the cold will probably change a bit.
Shoshana: Believe me, I don't to the best of my ability. But I'm not a shadchan or a parent so I have very little control.
In fact, at some point I was thinking that I would go dutch on a first date until the very next guy I went out with was kind of a jerk and I decided he didn't deserve it. I'm not even sure I've been a date since then. Oh, golly that was a long time ago . . .
On a date, that is.
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